Native Exiles
Native Exiles
Women Who Lead: Bethany Allen’s Journey
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In this episode, Wyatt sits down with Bethany Allen, a pastor and leadership development leader, to explore her journey stepping into leadership as a woman in ministry and organizational life. Bethany shares how her faith, education, and lived experiences have shaped her approach to leadership, as well as the challenges and opportunities she has encountered along the way.
We also discuss practical ways other women early in their careers can build confidence, embrace their strengths, and grow into leadership roles with authenticity and purpose. This conversation offers both personal insight and actionable guidance for anyone seeking to lead with impact in their own context.
Bethany Allen is the Pastor of Spiritual Formation and Leadership Development at Bridgetown Church in Portland, where she focuses on empowering individuals to grow spiritually and step into their calling.
Native Exiles is a podcast from Alderwood Community Church, where we talk about following Jesus in the tension of being in the world but not of it. For more questions and inquiries, reach at hello@alderwood.cc or visit us on our website at alderwood.cc/ne/.
Welcome to Native Exiles Aldered Community Churches podcast where we talk about following Jesus and the tension of being in the world but not of it. My guest today is Bethany Allen, who's the associate pastor at Bridgetown Church in Portland, Oregon. And we have a conversation about women in church leadership, especially about her story, which has really spanned quite a broad breadth of experience as she came out of a very, very complimentarian church and now is a pastor on staff at Bridgetown. And we get into all different kinds of aspects about what God has taught her and what that experience has been like and her uh her perspective on women today who are uh figuring out what it looks like to use their gifts in ministry and for the kingdom of God. It was a great conversation. I'm sure that you're gonna enjoy it. Let's jump in. Well, Bethany, thank you so much for joining us today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me. I feel honored to get to be here with you guys.
SPEAKER_02Well, as we jump in, I would love just for people, especially people who aren't familiar with you, to just hear your story. Uh what are you doing today and how did you get into the world of ministry?
SPEAKER_00That is a loaded question. Uh, what am I doing today? I'm working eight to five, just like Dolly said. Uh or I think it was nine to five.
SPEAKER_02But uh yeah, I am the one up in Dolly on that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That feels good today. Uh feels like a win. Um I am the associate pastor at Bridgetown Church in Portland, Oregon. And I've been in ministry about 20 years, vocational ministry 20 years. And long story short about how I got into the mix, um, I felt called to vocational ministry at 15. Um, but I felt called in a super conservative Southern Baptist Church. So my paradigm, though it was robust and beautiful, was I'll probably just be a pastor's wife, and that's how I'll serve vocation or how I'll serve vocationally in the work, and went to Bible college, served on staff at a church doing student ministry for a few years, then went to seminary and um out here in Portland, um, from at that time from Alabama to Portland. And um yeah, and just started working my way through seminary and realizing I don't think everyone thinks that I could I think everyone thinks I should just be a wife rather than just then getting to serve vocationally. So that began a big journey for me of searching out what the scriptures have to say about this and what does that look like for me. And then Bridgetown Church was planted right at the end of my time in seminary. And I was just serving as a volunteer, working with our college students, um, thinking I'd go back to the South and marry some cowboy and then live my life as a faithful pastor's wife. And um, but through through the journey, my end of my time in seminary, wrestling with the Lord, wrestling with the scriptures, just came to a place where, still in a complimentarian kind of paradigm, just believed there was a place for me to serve women in the church. And that led to a position at Bridgetown, a really weird position. I was like an admin slash coordinator slash women's director, that within six months turned into a full-time women's position.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00And then six months after that, uh, really turned into a pastoral uh position. And I'll just say that my journey at Bridgetown is where most of my vocational spiritual life has been, and I have very much been on the spectrum of hyper complementarian all the way to what we would call now egalitarian. That's been Bridgetown's journey. So when I first started, uh women weren't in staff meetings, women weren't in really any spaces, even if they were on staff as a director or coordinator. And that's just moved over time as we've discerned with really wise leaders and lovers of the scripture. What does it mean for us to live faithfully in the kingdom of God? And um, and I've been on the front end of that. That's it's been one of the most unexpected and greatest joys of my life, and one of the most honestly difficult paths that I've walked as well. Um, but uh that's led us to where we are now, you know, serving as pastor uh of women for seven years and then became pastor of spiritual formation and leadership development, and then just two years ago was made the associate pastor. So it's been a very unique journey, and then was also brought into eldership um two years ago as well. So officially, I should say. Uh yeah, so that's such a long way to say. It's been a long journey. I haven't always been where I've been at, and feel grateful for how God's provided, but mostly grateful to get to tell the story in our community that women are an essential part of expressing God's image to the world. And that is my greatest and deepest conviction across the board.
SPEAKER_02So well, I'd love to go back a little bit uh to the beginning where you know you said you grew up uh Southern Baptist, uh fairly hardline comliamentarian, where just the assumption was if you're gonna be involved in ministry, it's gonna be as a pastor's wife. That's kind of the path. Um and I think you mentioned that when you were at seminary, that was still kind of the expectation that you didn't you felt like that was what people thought, you know, your involvement in the church should look like. Um when did that start to change? I mean, how how did that start to change? What um what experiences did you have, or what kind of sparked a desire in you to serve in a vocational role, not just as a wife, but as somebody who was on staff and leading and discipling?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I I felt that I uh like I mentioned, I served in student ministry for about two years in Georgia at a large church, and I was like the girl's ministry assistant. Then I was like, I just was kind of the counterpart to the male youth pastor, um, without being called pastor. And I just loved it. And I remember in that season I was writing Bible studies and teaching uh the Bible studies to the young women. I thought, I had moments where I thought, I'm gifted, I'm made to do this. There's something about what I'm doing and even teaching this Bible study that makes me feel like I'm outside of myself, that God is doing something through me that I don't have language for, except that I was made to do this. And that doesn't mean I was exceptional, for sure. I'm sure it was not great, but it does mean that um that I was awake to being made for something more than just what I had kind of categorized myself to do. And I honestly grew up in a church where even though a role of pastor, elder for sure, nothing would have been granted to a woman, I was surrounded by strong female leaders who had strong influence. So I just assumed like no matter what I'd be doing, even as a wife, I'd be leading Sunday school departments, I would be teaching in some capacity. So I had a pretty robust vision for that. But I think I had mostly thought, I'll just serve in this way because this is what I want the most. I wanted to be a wife and a mom and serve in the kingdom, but do it that kind of way in that order. When I when I got to seminary, I realized I'm probably not gonna become a wife and a mom in the timeline. I was supposed to already, that should have already happened. I was in my, I was still in my early 20s, but I was still, I'm southern, so I should have been married and with a child already. Um and so I the longer that wasn't happening, the more I was aware, well, what if I what if this doesn't happen right away? What if this doesn't happen in the timeline I think? And what if this just doesn't happen? Um and that began just to open up a world of exploration of like, well, I could serve leading women. And that was kind of my next step, was like, all right, I'll I'll take a graduating seminary, and I was like, I'll just do, I'll lead women in the church. That's in the complementary and paradigm paradigm, which is where I was still at. And I can do that with a lot of fervor. But I realized like once I was trying to step into that, that that was virtually impossible, mostly because churches, though they would have said we affirm this thing that women can care for other women and lead them, they had no capacities or spaces or prioritization of women leading in that way. So there were no job openings, no job offers. And because of my energy and zeal, I think I wasn't just the ideal candidate. I'll put it that way. So, and I was young, you know, and I I don't think any of that was wrong. I think I would have been a good choice for a lot of places, but what I realized is like, oh, this is a systemic issue. Even though at the time I'm complimentarian, I'm realizing we don't value this as an essential part of um ecclesiological like robustness, at least at a church level. Um so I don't know what I'm gonna do now. And I don't know what that means, except that I could serve um as a layleader, which is what I did at Bridgetown starting out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So God was shaping it in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I um one of the things I've experienced, so many people have experienced, is, you know, as um, and this is not just in the women in leadership context, but in really any theological context, you know, as you grow and maybe your views change and you're no longer uh holding to something that your family of origin held or the church that you've come out of uh you know has whole has held historically. Like I think there's often a lot of challenges uh about how to navigate that with the people that you've loved and are close with, your friends, your family. Did you experience that as you stepped into especially a pastoral role at Bridgetown? Was there difficulty in navigating that? I and I don't know, you know, your parents obviously or or your close friends, but what was that like for you in that season?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, there were a couple different layers to it. So going to seminary was no problem in my upbringing context. Like many of our pastors' wives went to seminary and you know, kind of led mission kind of angled things. So that was really normal. So that was fine. Stepping on staff at a church was fine, too, because I was fitting in the paradigm that we held. When I became a pastor, my dad's a pastor, so um, in the Southern Baptist Arena, when I became a pastor, I was like, hey, um, they wanna they want to make me a pastor in the Ephesians 4 context, that I'm gifted to do this, called to do this. This is part of how God's made me. And my dad was like, great. And my mom was like, great. Um, because at the time, especially in their paradigm at that time, they would not have been okay with me being an elder. That would have been more compromising for them. Um and then when I was asked to preach, I thought, I don't know what they're gonna say. And again, I was so surprised that my dad was like, Yeah, I believe under the authority of the elder board, like that's good. And again, I think the government, the spiritual government I grew up under, I don't know what the right phrasing is, but was very different than the paradigm of like elder led. So my dad has existing still in a different world, as far as that goes, than I'm living in now. So I think it translated in some ways that was very awesome. But I think I was most nervous when I was discerning whether to become an elder in our community, and I thought this is probably the jugular. And I remember I took my dad out to to breakfast, I flew to Georgia and had this conversation with him, which is where he lives. And I just said, It it really matters to me to have your blessing. I don't need your agreement, but I want you to feel proud of me and not ashamed of me. And I said, You know, I'm discerning this position, you know, position of elder, and and my dad just graciously, because he's a godly man who loves the kingdom, said, You don't need my blessing, but you always have it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_00And um, and part of that as we broke it down, is just I don't think my dad has fully landed any. I think he's pretty disoriented by the journey I've had too. I think it's been very in it in the right ways challenging to him. Um, but my dad and mom love the kingdom of God, and they can see there's advancement happening and a yes in this. And so, um, yeah, so that's been kind of the journey. I think I've had it great because my parents really love the Lord. Um, I don't think that's true for everyone. You know, I think some people can get really caught up on the religious things. My my church family back home that I grew up in, I s I promise they think I'm a missionary in Portland. None of them really know what I do. Some of the people I went to high school with know that I preach sometimes. And so they'll just be like, what a weird thing you're doing.
SPEAKER_02So I I with and I'm glad to hear that the gospel has made it to Portland in some way.
SPEAKER_00And that's I had I had a few older gentlemen who were like gr grandfathers in the faith who before they passed in recent years, I just, you know, they said, We know you're preaching, we know you're you know, it was kind of scandalous. They like pulled me aside. And one of them just said to me with the best heart possible, just said, You preach the word of God until until everyone hears the gospel. And I was just like, Whoa. So I think um, even though publicly he would have never said that, privately he said that to me. And I think I think that reveals the heart of the community, but also the heart of these individuals. And but but it is comical when people don't want to talk about what I do back home. So they're just like she lives in Portland and she serves the church. So that's kind of where it lands.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, I love what you just shared about uh especially your dad's perspective, because I think that's been my hope is that you know, I as our church have been going through a a little bit of a transition in what we believe about women as leaders in the church. And in particular, one of the things that's changed is for the first time we're saying we're uh we embrace giving the title of pastor to women, and um you know that's uh a new thing for a lot of our people. And one of the things that I uh encountered just growing up in an environment where um there was clear lines about that, that we just didn't have female pastors, was that uh everybody kind of knew where the line was. Everybody knew like we believe this. Um very few people had really engaged with it deeply and and understood the arguments behind it or why people don't all agree or any of that. And so, and that's that's actually I I think many of us believe a lot of what we believe. We just we receive the faith from someone and and and and it's not a bad thing. You accept it and you know, uh, and follow Jesus. And um, but as we've been kind of digging in into this in a new way, our hope has been that um even as we agree and disagree and and push back and try to understand where everyone's coming from, that we can keep that love of the Lord and the love of the work of the kingdom in a different category that's above everything that we're talking about, where um we can love the fact that the gospel is moving forward, that the word is being preached. Um, you know, if we have a disagreement on exactly how titles should be applied or exactly in what context things should be happening, that we can have that as brothers and sisters in Christ. And so I love hearing that even people who uh are maybe a long ways away theologically from where you are on on women in leadership can still say, I love that you're serving the Lord, I love that you're preaching the word. I hope that would be all of our attitude as we engage this conversation together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's a gift and it's it's a kingdom paradigm that you're often not faced with until you're challenged with things like that. So it's uh, yeah, it's been a beautiful journey and a funny one, you know, too. Because it's it's complex, you know, and I I can respect the gift of that for me, has been, you know, people often say, Oh, you're an elder now, so you you must have this view. And and the truth is like I've lived in at this point, I've gotten to kind of live in the camps, the in-betweens. And I have so much respect for everyone at every point in the journey because of even my own, my own journey with different people. So it's just been, yeah, a gift.
SPEAKER_02Well, let's let's go to your time at Bridgetown, if you don't mind. Um, and so you moved from a volunteer position to a kind of uh hodgepodge position to a pastoral position. Yes. And I think you said that um uh early on, Bridgetown was a complementarian church. And uh when you became a pastor, was that novel? Was that new uh for Bridgetown? Or uh was anybody doing that ahead of you?
SPEAKER_00No, that was very new. I in fact I was the first woman they hired, aside from John Mark's mother. John Mark was the founder of the church, um, to be in any uh official position. So in in a ministerial way. Um and so there was administration and there was other, but so it was it was newer across the board. So that was um, yeah, we started out, um, think like John MacArthur. That that world was kind of where we were the church had originally kind of come from. Um and so even almost even more conservative than how I grew up, even. Um and then, you know, it really we evolved, we have a unique situation because we were one church, three locations when we first formed, and we quickly moved to become our own 501c3 in our own community. When that happened, we were discerning um a lot more. We were discerning, we're separating from, for lack of a better word, the mothership and discerning what what we were, what we were going after, what we saw um as invitations from the spirit to our community, to the specific place in downtown Portland that God had called us. And so this was part of it. I I stepped on initially, and what was so unique was within that first year, John Mark came to me who I didn't even know super well because we were such a large church at the time, and he just said, I think you have an Ephesians 4 gifting. Um, you're shepherding so many women. And I I would just say this, just for context, they were just so hungry to hear that they had a place in the kingdom of God. So it was very easy to love and serve that community of women. And I just was doing the basic stuff, and there was just a strong response because there was so much hunger. Um, and so that when he came to me and said that, I thought, this is so unique. I've never thought about the titles or positions this way. But he said, we are rethinking what we're calling you because we think you're pastoring more than most of our pastors are. So um we brought that to the elders. They discerned that again with a few key trusted leaders outside of the elders, and we affirmed the title of women pastors. And then I was teaching a Bible, a class about women and leadership, women as essential parts of the kingdom, only women, but then they it was so full that they were like, we think you must have a teaching gift, yeah, and we don't know what to do with it. So just I'm saying, giving context for that, just to say it was less, we've decided, and we're gung-ho, and more. We see ev evidence of God's spirit in this. We see fruitfulness, and that's not because of me. It was just really because of the timing and what God was doing in our community. But that's how it started, and then we discerned that together. And I preached with John Mark for the first time, and um, and then that was it. And then I was preaching. So it was a journey, and that was very just to be since just to be really honest, to the other churches we we were no longer, you know, connected to in that sense, it was very scandalous at some level. It was very provocative that I was moving into the position of pastor and then teaching. Um, and I wouldn't say that because they weren't they were frustrated or just it it was um not what they had held to. So it was a very, it looked like a strong deterrent from what where we came from. Um and then I'll just the the position of elder. So I've been pastor and teacher, and and I was invited to sit unofficially at the elder table probably seven or eight years ago. Um, because because again, John Mark came to me and said, we think you have such a pulse on the pastoral heart of our community. So all of a sudden, where where years ago it would have been, well, you're a woman, so you have perspective on what's going on with women, something had shifted in the heart of our leadership to say it's not just the women. God's given you a gift to see and hear and know things about our community that we're not tapped into the same way because we're different, because you have a maternal gift, we have paternal gifts, there's uniqueness in the differentiation. And that led to me sitting at the elder table for quite a long time, unofficially, um, offering pastoral insight and discernment and whatever I could offer, sometimes nothing. Um, and then when Tyler came, um, he just said, you know, this isn't gonna work. Can't have you sitting here and not be an elder officially. So we need to discern whether we believe it's this is what the scriptures say or not. And so that began our second journey where I had to discern for myself was this something I saw in the scriptures and felt free to do. So um it was all of a long journey, but that's what kind of led it was kind of an evolution of sorts, not some agenda that was being pushed throughout the whole era, just a progression over time of seeing what God was doing.
SPEAKER_02So Yeah. Wow.
SPEAKER_00It's a lot. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02You know, and I think, you know, I think there's a a reality to that that um is so true in so many different contexts, which is that you know, sometimes we lead by getting out ahead of everything and thinking things through really well and like writing papers and you know, all that kind of stuff. And then a lot of time uh it's not that way. And we respond to what God's doing and uh figure it out as we go. And um, you know, I one of the things I have in my mind in our context. Right now is uh we just updated our position on women in leadership and um and we hold to a male elder model, but are opening up the title of pastor to women and uh allowing women to speak on Sunday mornings for the first time. And so, you know, we're gonna have women leaders in our church context who are doing some of those things for the first time, who are gonna be among the first to have uh a pastor title in our church community, are gonna be among the first to speak and preach on a Sunday morning. And so I'm curious just for you to speak to what was it like to be the first? What was that experience for you? And, you know, if you could speak in our context and speak to some of these women who are gonna be in that similar position, what would you say to us uh today?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a big question. Um, but I will try my best. Uh it was, you know, I would say living that story was, I think I said this at the beginning too, was one of the greatest privileges of my life. It felt like God had entrusted something to me. Um, it wasn't a pioneer. I didn't have some objective or I wasn't trying to do this. So I just felt like an odd choice for God to pick. Um, but it also has been, I think, like Alsa said, one of the most costly things that I've ever done as a leader. I remember the first year I was hired, and the Lord had I felt like He really spoke to me and said, I want you to pray every day for favor with every man on staff. And I want you to serve them. And I thought, and this is true, this is unfair. I don't know how many men are thinking I should pray for favor with women at this church.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and so I had a part of me that was like, This isn't fair. Why, why this? And I felt like very early on he said to me, this can be about two things. This can be about the advancement of the kingdom of women, which will be meaningful and significant, or this can be about the advancement of the kingdom of God, which will mean you you're gonna have to die a lot more in order for that to be true. Because one of the convictions I had coming out of seminary was that I wasn't going to move forward at the expense of my brothers. Because that had happened, that had been happening to women. And we're not gonna solve the issue by going to the other side of the spectrum. We can only do it by coming together and living out the imagote, which requires death. And it does require death on both parties, but I only knew what I was responsible for. So that that has been the journey, and I'll just say still, and then I'm gonna try to encourage your women stepping in. But I'll just say still, we're still on that journey. Yeah, partnership is not intuitive, and it's not intuitive in the context of the church or church leadership. It's you know, significantly under talked about and underscored, and so it's it's still a I'm still in it. I'm the first female elder, and I feel it. And I am one of I am the only one who sounds and looks and contends for things my way. I am the only mother at the elder helm, and that's really different than having it's one mother to four fathers. So it's it's a it's a costly journey, and it's not one that you don't have to fight for, you have to fight for it. Um, and it continues to require death, but it's completely worth it for the kingdom of God to be on display fully. To a woman stepping into this position, I would say for me, my objective was the the advancement of the kingdom of God. I had a clear anchor point that I held to when men came up to me after a teaching and said weird things to me. Um, or when send me emails and correct my teaching all the way through in writing, like I was a child. Um, or when men got up and left the room when I would preach. Um my anchor point was the advancement of the kingdom of God and the reminder that God had called me and that he had invited me, and that my only job wasn't to make a name for myself or to build any kind of platform, but it was to build and edify the church by reflecting the image of God to his people. And believing that I wasn't just stepping into a role, I was stepping into the identity God had already given to me before the foundations of the earth, which was to co-create and co-rule and co-steward the beauty and the gift that God had given to us in this world. And I can't tell you it sounds so beautiful, wax eloquent, that's just you know, but I live and die by those things. Because, because, and not to say, I'm sure at your church, everyone will be celebrating, it'll be wonderful. But even still, even if every human celebrates, every woman who steps onto the platform at your community, internally the enemy will come. And it's hard to erase thousands of years of church history, as well as the current climate we're in. You know, it it's a very it's it's uh you're fighting the battle at so many levels. And I would just say you need to be anchored fully in God's invitation to you. And that's sometimes hard to find. You've got to have people around you who can say the true things to you. And I have a lot of people who still do that for me, um, and remind me who I am and what God called me to do. And sometimes it's the men you serve with, and sometimes it's not. Um, but just finding ways to stay anchored in that reality and then be yourself. That's the other thing I would say, which is really, really, really difficult to do. Um, you know, I would say for the first eight or nine years of my ministry here, I I framed everything through how would a man hear this? So I led from like a more male-centric paradigm. And I remember really clearly one day God spoke to me and said, I want you to lead full female. Uh and so yeah, so I just would say too, like, I wish earlier on I had I had been free to be myself without trying to calculate all the costs of what it would be maybe to not sound like so and so, or to not, you know, uh carry the same confidence or tone as someone else. So that's a lot, but I would also say just have fun, but all those other things too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02You've been at Bridgetown now uh quite a while. You came in the early 2010s, is that right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've I've been here almost 15 years, the 15 years this summer.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Yeah. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What when you look at uh just the story of what God's done uh in Bridgetown and in your ministry there, what do you think it has done for the women of Bridgetown uh just to be able to see you serving and using your gifts in ministry? Do you think that's had a significant effect?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course. A thousand percent. You know, I mean, we're also in a very, like you guys, progressive city where women are CEOs all over the place. So it was a very confusing thing when when in the church they were like, wait a second, why aren't women CEOs here? You know? So I think at a very uh cultural level, women are like, this is amazing, because this should be true. Shouldn't it be true here if it's true there, or you know, those kind of things, um, which we don't use culture to I know shape the church, but that that's been helpful. I'll say, you know, I think the thing that's been the most helpful is I think what it has done is shape two things in our community to see a woman lead. One, it's it's given uh women the vision for what's essential, for their essentialness in the kingdom. So the the first thing God did was just even by being on the stage, because early on, women weren't on the stage at all, not even like backup singers, uh people. Um so by a woman being on the stage, it's like they saw themselves in the kingdom story somewhere, and that it was important and essential. And that's changed the way women show up in our community. And what they ask for, what they reach for. It's just an automatic acceleration of their place in the kingdom of God. But then I think also it's given them yeah, a greater imagination for what's possible and for what God might want to do through them. And most of them don't want to work at a church, and most of them don't want to be standing on stage, but they don't see a limitation per se. And so they think, well, this is her vocation. I have one too. And so beyond just the paradigm of my place in the church, it's my place in the world and what's possible in in me being freed up to be who it is that I've been made to be in the world and what what could be accomplished. Um the day I was commissioned as an elder, there were three little girls that we have this picture reaching up to the stage while I'm being commissioned. They're just like looking up like this, these little girls. And I think that also sums up part of the effect is that there's a generation of kids who were not even conceived. I knew I knew their mothers when they were dating their dads, who are now six, you know, five or six, and their their vision for the kingdom is just it's normal. I'm Pastor Bethany to them, or just Bethany, and they know I'm just I'm like Tyler. I'm like, and it's normal, and I think the greatest joy I had on that day was seeing those little girls and thinking they have no question about their place in the kingdom of God and about what's possible for them, should God call them uh vocationally to serve his church. And that's also just a massive added benefit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love hearing that. Yeah. And and maybe let's kind of you know play that out a little bit uh for churches that are uh really looking at this and wanting to make that kind of thing happen, make uh girls who are grown up in the church and the women that we have um feel a place in the kingdom, feel the freedom and and the encouragement to use their gifts. Um what do you think churches need to be doing? And and and how can churches uh not only you know not be a hindrance to women using their gifts for the kingdom, but how can churches actually be a part of of fanning that flame and of really seeing women uh using their gifts to the full extent of how God has created them and what the spirit is calling them to?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a great question. Um I would say this I would say uh it's less about invitation and more about actually creating space and holding it until until those spaces are filled. And what I mean by that is most churches theologically hold to the value of the Imago Day, wherever they land ecclesiologically, doesn't matter. They hold to that philosophically, that shapes some of what they do, but practically that rarely translates like into actual visual, convicting level like expression in the community. And the same is very much true for women in leadership and in ministry. So what I'm what I see a lot, I get to talk to a lot of pastors who are making the same move. And and the the difference between it being effective and ineffective is if a pastor like you, like you're doing, is doing more than just saying we value this, and so we invite you to step in. But it's it's really about saying, um, we've created a space that unless you fill it, um, it won't be what it's supposed to be. So we'll hold the space. We'll value it so much that we'll hold the space until it's filled with what we hope to see. And that means things like practically, like if you're hiring for a position and, you know, you've got 90 male candidates and two female candidates, it's saying, we're gonna hold this out, knowing she might not have as much experience because there's not a lot of opportunity for women to have the same experience, but saying, We really we see this gifting or we see this thing, and choosing that anyway where you could choose something else. Or, you know, it it's like, hey, we want you to preach this series on not just Mother's Day. We'd like you to preach it on Father's Day or whatever, you know, whatever. Um, we want you to teach an advent because we think you'll have such a beautiful, unique perspective to offer, a community that would add dimension to the story of Jesus coming. And and saying we're we want this specific person to fulfill this. Because I think a lot of times I talk to a lot of pastors who are like, well, we've asked women to do this. We've asked them to step in. And what can't be named is the intense, huge roadblocks and fears that exist um in even an invitation like that. Because what happens on the back end, I remember even, and I'll stop here, I feel like I'm talking a lot, but um, I remember when I first preached my first sermon, and John Mark said, and all of the elders said to me, You will not answer to anyone who's hostile to you. And they stood beside me after each other did three teachings. They stood beside me after each teaching to ensure that no one dishonored me or came at me in a way that would have been degrading. That them choosing to put their money where their mouth was of like, we will stand with you as partners. It did something in me, it did something in understanding what they were actually inviting me into. But before that, I was terrified because I went to a church where if a woman spoke, I know what would happen. And I had heard stories from other women and friends, and and I just hate to say it, but that's just that's just the world we're living in. And so, yeah, so I think just invites beyond invitation, ensuring that there's a place and that you're actually standing in partnership with that place and that conviction that you have. That really matters. Um, again, it it's got to move beyond like we'd love to have you do that. And we want you to do that. Will you consider it? Here's the date, here's the time, here's the topic, we'll help you walk through it. If you've never preached before, we'll connect you, we'll work with you on it. We want to see you do this in a way where you feel confident and ready to do it. Um, those kind of things really make a difference.
SPEAKER_02No, I I love that. Um, yeah. Well, thank you. Um before we go today, I would love to hear uh maybe outside, well, maybe the answer is something about women in leadership, but even outside of that conversation, just uh what is God doing right now at Bridgetown and your ministry? What are you most excited and passionate about and what's kind of on the horizon for you? What are you chasing after right now?
SPEAKER_00Um we're in uh strategic planning season, so we're gearing up for next year. Uh, we're making some really good shifts to deepen our spiritual formation culture. I'm very excited about that. And to continue to serve our community. We're trying to, we're dreaming about ways to make our community feel smaller, even though it's bigger. So, about coming back to some of those core foundations. So I'm really excited about that. I'm more probably excited right now about my sabbatical than I'm taking this summer. Yeah, got a few months off. So I think that's the more honest answer that I am excited about. Uh yeah, I mean, I hope I get married on sabbatical. That's one of my plans. Um, but we'll see. So that's in the mix. And then uh mostly my family lives in Florida, so just chilling in Florida for a long time and doing a little travel in California. But yeah, mostly just getting out of town and relaxing in the sun and by the beach. So that's the main objective.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's fantastic. I hope that God uses that to really restore you and bless you. And yeah, I have a sabbatical coming up in you know, a little a little over a year here, and I'm already thinking about it as well.
SPEAKER_00So I you have to. That's the timeline. It's great.
SPEAKER_02Well, Betty, this has been such a great time, uh, a great conversation. I really appreciate your insight and blessings on you and what God's doing in your life and your church, and excited to keep hearing what's going on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thank you so much. And I pray that God will bless you guys as you step into this next season. I'm excited for you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. See you soon. Once again, that was Bethany Allen, and I just love her graciousness in that conversation, but also her tenacity to not let people get in the way of what God has called her to in using her gifts for the kingdom and her passion to see that continue in the lives of so many others. So I hope you're encouraged by that. Uh as always, you can reach out to us with questions with comments. If you enjoyed this, I hope you'll share it with a friend. And we'll see you next time on Native Exiles.